Throw a Stone

Udo Hirsch, Gelveri-Manufactur

May 2020

Throw a stone

in a pond and see the ripples

This is the image Isabell Legeron MW uses in her book „Natural Wine“ to describe the difference between natural and conventionally produced wine and what comes in between.

A short summary of the current situation of viticulture (mainly EU)

Conventional winemaking

In the past, viticulture used to be mixed cultivation with a great deal of biodiversity. A large part of this wineries resulted in conventional viticulture, i.e. monocultures without any space for other plants. Today, priority is given to technology and profitability. The EU regulations of the market in wine, the International Organization of Vine and Wine (OIV) and several other organizations are responsible for the policies.

There are, of course, different methods, but in conventional viticulture heavy machines are generally used, in combination with artificial fertilizer against grasses and herbs, and pesticides against insects. Vine diseases and parasites are mainly fought by regular preventive spraying with pesticides. Synthetic fungicides are employed in particular to protect the delicate vines against fungal infestation.

Although the winegrowing part covers only about 3.5% of the agricultural area in Europe, 15% of the total amount of pesticides is applied here. Herbicides such as Glyphosat Roundup by Monsanto/Bayer as well as other chemical-synthetic ones are extensively used. Any negative effects on the ecosystem in the vineyards are not taken into account.

More than fifty additives and authorized work practices are allowed for the production of conventional wine in Europe, and more than seventy in the US.

For the complete list of authorized oenological treatments and techniques see EU 606/2009.

We have no idea of what we are drinking because the label on the wine bottles does not contain any information of the actual content

In the US it is legal to use a „Spinning Cone Column“ for improving wines. It is a centrifugal column that disassembles the wine into its individual components. As needed and desired, individual parts can then be enriched, changed or completely reassembled. The centrifugal column has not yet been admitted in Europe.

However, even without this machinery, a considerable amount of conventionally produced wines has turned into an industrially fabricated mass product, lacking original features, origin or character. According to law, these wines are sensorily marketable (technical jargon). This rather interesting official term explicitly refers to texture, smell and taste of the wine, not to its quality though.

Ecological viticulture

Ecological viticulture places great importance on environmental protection, which is one of many requirements for a wine to be called Eco-Wine and labelled with the EU organic logo. Ecological viticulture is defined by the EU Organic Wine Regulation and by certain other organizations, too.

In ecological cultivation the vineyard is treated as a holistic ecosystem where plant protection and biodiversity are of major importance. Only organic products may be used for plant protection. Natural means for strengthening the vines and greening the vine rows are essential for healthy grapes. Fertilization should be organic whereas chemical pesticides and herbicides are not allowed.

All legitimate means and work methods concerning ecological viticulture, i.e. vineyard and wine cellar, are listed in the Regulation for Organic Viticulture EU-606/2012. ECOVIN, Bioland, Naturland, Demeter and other organizations responsible for inspecting and certification employ even stricter criteria which have to be met by their members.

Biodynamic viticulture

Biodynamic viticulture goes even a few steps further than ecological viticulture. It is the „strictest“ way of controlled and certified ecological winegrowing. Biodynamically produced wines are marked with the seal of the Demeter association that defines the requirements on biodynamic agri- and viticulture.

Besides the holistic view of the vineyard as an ecosystem, biodynamic viticulture comprises a spiritual worldview. Strengthening of the vines and their natural surroundings is paramount. Thus, homemade „homeopathic“ remedies such as herbal infusions and horn silica are applied in addition to biological plant fortifiers.

Only organic preservatives are allowed. Organic fertilizers and greening of vine rows are obligatory essentials. Biodiversity in the vineyard and the use of beneficial organisms are of great importance. The vineyard should possibly be worked without machinery. Biodynamic certification, which is carried out by the Demeter association, excludes the majority of usually permitted additives. These particularly strict requirements comprise a minimum of approved treatment agents.

„Vin méthode nature“ (2020) ought to be seen as the first private initiative towards an official definition of „Natural Wine“. It is intended to try this definition and the approved term out, within a three-year trial program. Austria and Italy are going to join the test phase.

The method is based on the regulations for ecological viticulture. It implies the following further restrictions:

Use of local grapes only

Grape harvesting by hand

No additives

No pasteurizing

No temperature monitoring

No reverse osmosis

No filtering

No more than 30mg/l sulfite in bottling

It is a pity that the definition „Vin méthode nature“ still does not really indicate what natural wine is. Yet it is a stopover on the way to reach our set goal.

Even this definition is not completely transparent for the consumer. The regulations for ecological viticulture still include quite a few possibilities to modify the wine with external products. Instead of listing further restrictions, the process of cultivation and vinification should be outlined in relation to the guidelines of ecological winegrowing, so that the consumer will know what components the wine is eventually made up of.

In my opinion the term Natural Wine is a definition in itself, given by its two components NATURE and WINE… That is how most customers see it, anyway.

An official definition of Orange Wine does not exist. It is not needed either, because Orange Wine is just white wine produced in the same way as red wine. The wine can extract tannins and colorants because of maceration and extended contact on the mash, which may both influence the taste of the wine.

Since no extras are needed to make Orange Wine, it may have been produced either conventionally, ecologically or bio-dynamically. If the wine, however, has been certified by an accredited organization, the bottle will at least show a correspondent logo and reference to organic or bio-dynamic winegrowing.

Looking into the Future

The Young Wild Ones (winemakers)

This is what quite a few young winemakers are called. The number of young winemakers who want to assign their local wines a new image by making origin and tradition „tastable“ is steadily growing.

The Young Wild Ones do not compete but co-operate. Their asset is rather up-to-date mutual knowledge about climate, soil and vines than their fathers‘ industrial plants. Their products are often called natural high-quality wines which can well withstand global comparison.

The Young Wild Ones (chemists)

Since 2015, three company founders have been analyzing various wines in their laboratory Ava in California, by making digital copies. With these they then created a completely new product. Since the foundation of Ava Winery synthetic wines have become better and better. The founders of Ava comment that someone who does not know that their products are fabricated in a laboratory, would never get the idea that these wines are not „normal“ wines. They taste like wine, have the texture of wine, and they are pure products, not having been treated with any pesticides. To be honest, isn’t the greater part of wines on today’s market somehow engineered, anyway. Ava Winery produce their synthetic wines with State Approval. Two more countries are already known to be permitted to produce artificial wines and market them as wine.

Taste and Quality?

In 1978 the wine critic Robert Parker started a point-judging-system for wines. His judgement, however, is only based on the taste (color,smell,taste) of the wine, an overall assessment of the relevant winery is not carried out.

Since each wine taster has a specific perception how a good wine should taste, the tasting results of individual tasters are hardly ever comparable. So we are still uncertain what exactly a good wine is. It is generally said that a large quantity of wine tastings leads to an effective general impression of the quality of wines. But is that really the case? We remember that only a few years ago the highest ratings went to wines that had been stored in fresh oak barrels or had been macerated with lots of oak chips. Is it really possible these days to confirm the quality of wine through assessment of color, smell and taste, let alone when there are more than twenty different and widely competitive assessment systems? What is for sure is the fact that number-related wine rating is an easily comprehensible marketing tool. Wines with a rating of 90 points are easily sold, whereas those at 95 points are hardly affordable, which shall consequently apply to the taste-orientated synthetic laboratory wines from the Californian Ava Winery.

In the EU, cherry wines, apple wines, blackberry wines and other fruit wines are produced and marketed as foodstuffs. The label on the bottle has to indicate every ingredient. Grape wine, however, does not count as ordinary but, according to law, as luxury food. This implies that listing of additives on the label is not required. What may be the reason for this regulation? Is the wine lobby possibly afraid that the consumer can find out what is in the bottle? Or is it just because all those additives, which are permitted and applied with conventional wine, do not fit onto a wine label?

When Robert Parker started his point-judging-system it was still possible to connect taste to quality. Today, after forty years of intensive industrialization as well as rapid development and use of synthetic „tools“ in viticulture, this connection unfortunately does no longer exist with many wines.

No matter what today’s drinker of wine is tasting, the taste may well originate from natural cultivation and vinification, from wine containing a lot of additives, or even from laboratory produced wine.

That is why the question of the quality of a wine urgently needs an acceptable answer. High scores in the point-judging-system have not been satisfactory for quite a while.

The guidelines for certified ecological and eco-dynamic winegrowing provide clear quality levels and guarantees. But how does this effect all those small and medium-sized producers who do not have their wines certified? Quite a few are working close to nature, following the guidelines and standards of certified methods. Then there are the pioneers whose uncertified winegrowing aims at the final stage of natural wine (meaning „nothing added, nothing taken away“). How could this rather large number of winemakers document the quality of their wines?

The logo presented here can help the producer to point out the quality of his wines ang give necessary information to the consumer, which is actually beyond official control and guarantee.

There are, however, fine examples that show how even uncontrolled productions keep what they have promised. In the meantime, members of associations and non-governmental organizations have set their own standards and jointly market their high quality wines.

Throw a stone in a pond and see the ripples …..

In her book „Natural Wine“ Isabell Legeron uses this simile when she describes the difference between natural wine and conventional wine and explains what comes in between the two.

This is a graph of the pond that can be used as a private quality logo (with “Gelveri” as an example).

Explanation of the logo

Outside the ripples there is the large area of conventional wines. It slightly overlaps with the end ripples of the pond water, signifying natural wine. The area for certified organic wines basically covers the middle part of the rippled field. The section still closer to the center stands for certified biodynamic winegrowing. Both areas consist of a lighter and a darker field. The darker one represents the legally defined basics. The lighter parts demonstrate additional guidelines of the relevant organizations for inspection and certification. Natural wine (without adding, without taking away) is marked at the starting point of the ripples i.e. in the very center. A small red bar may individually be inserted in the graph in order to place one’s own position. The officially inspected and certified winegrowing areas count as reference ranges. Although this graph is not an absolutely exact representation, it will certainly help customers to classify the quality of their desired wines.

Use points for taste

Use the pond logo for quality


Udo Hirsch



Natural Wine – The Cellar Work

Our work in the cellar.       Third Part        Udo Hirsch

The grapes have just arrived

For the third part of my presentation about how to make a Natural Wine I would like to repeat that „ a high biodiversity in the vineyard is the best precondition for a Natural Wine and the successful work in the wine cellar“. In addition, this biodiversity saves a lot of work, trouble and costs, and it gives certainty to clients that they get what they wish to get.

Besides, our project aims at working with little investment and simple work processes.

We have 32 Küps of different sizes with different capacities between 70 – 2000 liter and of different ages. In Turkey you can still find wine Küps all over the country with antique dealers . They are not very expensive.

Our wine cellar for white wine

Our Küps for red wine are in a half open room outside, the küps for white wine in a vaulted cellar below our house.

grape mill with destemming part

We work with a grape mill and with a destemming part. It is placed on top of a pump. From here the crashed grapes are directly pumped into Küps.

From the mill directly to t Küp

We fill the Küps three quarters full with mash . Fermentation of the red grapes starts mostly during the next day.

The white grapes normally begin to ferment one day later. Since we do not use yeast from a laboratory, we leave it to the grapes to use their own yeast. This kind of yeast „knows“ best how to work with its own grapes, anyway.


pushing the grape skinns doswn

During fermentation, when sugar is turned into alcohol, the development of carbon dioxide pushes the grape skins upward to form a tight mash hat. This hat must be pushed down regulary in order to make the extraction of colour, tannins and aroma possible.

The stems have dried 2 days in the sun

On the second and third day I taste the mash and add some of the stems again into the küp, to balance the sugar with some more tannine and aromas

powerfull fermentation

During the following 4-6 days the fermentation is very powerful. Especially the mash of the grapes fermenting outside must be pushed down and stirred every 3 hours, day and night.

forgotten to push the skins every 2 hrs. down

If you oversleep, the red wine in  our 2000 ltr Küp will behave like a volcano

this Küps with a wide open mouth is for the ferm entation of our rare grapes.

For our very rare grape varieties we use Küps with a capacity of about 200 ltr. and with a wide opening. Here the dioxyd can escape very easily and the mash hat can also be pushed down easily to mix with the juice.

The küps stay open during the whole time of fermentation.

The fermentation of our red wine takes about 8-12 days, with the white wine in the cellar it takes about 14-20 days. During this time all the sugar is transformed into alcohol. The result is a dry wine.

The Küp is covered with a glas plate and closed with a syphon

We now fill the Küps up to the brim and close them with a glassplate and a siphon. Now the few still rising gases can escape through the siphon, but CO² cannot enter the küp any longer. After one month we replace the siphon with a stopper.

In the following time the grape skins, the stems and the pits slowly start to sink down. This procedure takes about one month. Only from two of our grapes do the pits stay on the surface. During this time the wines clear up and we do not need to filter them.

We then patiently wait for another six months without any further interference. During this time the grape juice transforms itself into wine.

The Dionysos Festival

In April we invite our wine friends to celebrate with us our yearly Dionysos festival. For the first time we open all our küps and taste the new wine. Together we decide what we should do next. Do we separate the wine from its yeast, from the grape skins, from pits and stems? Do we already fill some wines in bottles? Which wine should we transfer into another küp for aging in our wine cave? Or, do we just close some küps again and wait for another couple of months?

In this cave some of our wines are aging and I come here for dreaming

Do not forget, the next Dionysos Festival is in April

Udo Hirsch – Gelveri-Manufactur

How to make Natural Wine

Udo Hirsch, Second Part , Vineyards, October 2020

In this second part I will show some photographs from our work in the vineyards. I also will tell about our method for producing Natural Wine.

As a reminder. Our plan is to make Natural Wine with only little investment, with a simple workprocess and without need for high level industrial and chemical knowledge. We are producing 5000 – 6000 bottles of wine each year, sufficient to provide a normal income for a family of 6 person. And very important, we try to save a number of rare Anatolian grapes which are on the edge of extinction

Small private grape gardens north of mount Hasan Dag
some of our rare grapes

On the nortwestern and northern side of Hasan Dag are the grape gardens of some villagers. Nearly every familiy owns between 3 and 8 donüm ( 1 dönüm = o,1 ha). Here I found a number of up to 8 different grapes per garden, mostly Bulut, Dimrit, Kayseri Karasi, Sehir Alasi, Inek Memesi, Cavus Üzüm, Keten Gömlek and less common Kizil Üzüm, Koku Üzüm, Tas Üzüm and It Üzüm. Many of those grapes are used for to produce pekmez or for rasin, some are sold on the local market as table grapes, some others are used for making wine and raki.

Because we are interested in saving rare grapes, we started to plant them in our grape garden. According to regional traditions vines are planted in a bush shape (Gobelet) with a distance of at least 1,5 meter

Looking for good cuttings from rare grapes.
Cuttings from Hasan Dede.

Our vine cuttings should be at least 60 cm long for to plant them deep into the dry tuff soiI. It is important that the cuttings have a little piece of the 2nd years wood. This helps the vine cuttings to produce roots easy and quick.

Our „grape usta“ with a prefered vine cutting

Only the half of the deep planting hole will be filled with volcanic soil. The upper part will stay open for some weeks. Here we can water the young vines during July and August and at the same time prevent the vines forming roots in this upper part.

„Göz acmak“ translated „open the eye“ is a Cappadocian tradition.

The traditional göz acmak

This work starts at the end of February, beginning of March. We take the soil directly around the vine 20 – 30 cm deep away. During the wet winter month roots which have grown around the upper part of the vine should now dry out. This is also the time for pruning the vines.

The upper roots should dry out.

After 6 weeks the roots become dry and the tuff soil is again piled up around the vine. With this laborious handwork the vine is forced to go deeper with its roots in order to find enough water.


But this work has also other advantages. It deprives the livelihood of Phylloxera, the most dangerous insect for grape vine. This pest feeds mainly on roots which grow directly under the surface of the soil. Our grape vines are free of Phylloxera and do not grow on American rootstock but on their own rootstock.

Vines directed to the south are protected against the very hot temperature.

Two of our grapes are resistent against mildew. Some of our other grapes may show some signs of mildew after a longer rainfall of several days. But only twice within 10 years we protected our grapes with an extract from the horsetail plant. The climate and soil is so dry, that this illness does not spread. Some other owners in our neighborhood are using somtimes sulfit as a prophylactic treatment.

High biodiversity in our young grape plantation…….the best protection against pests.
Our grapes find their water from the volcanic alluvial fan.

In my first presentation I explained already why, despite of 5-6 month without rain, we do not need to water our grapes (exceptions are young plantations). Most of the grape yards are on places were water from the volcano flows underground. Here we have reactivated two old unused grape gardens and have started to replant them.

Over the summer month our „Üzüm Usta“ (grape master) looks time by time for the grapes. He may break out some leaves if they grow too dense, mainly as a method of defence against meldew.

Every year we have to start harvesting earlier.

This year we started with the harvest already in the first week of September. 10 years ago we started in the middle of October !

Different grapes mature at different times. I often measure the sugar contend of grapes with an refractometer, but I decide about the time of harvesting with the help of my taste.

I enjoy this part of my work very much

Sometimes I have a problem with it. In years with long and strong sunshine the northern site of the grape bunch is still unripe when the southern side is already becoming dry and brownish. By than to decide for the harvest, judging with my taste is difficult.

We harvest this grape only after it has lost all its leafs.

We pick the grapes by hand and transporting them in 20 kg plastic boxes to our wine cellar.

About the following processing of our grapes I will tell you in my next contribution.

A part of our new plantation


Our vine yards are on the flanks of the volcano Hadan Dag in 1500 meter altitude. During summertime the temperature rises between 30 and 40 °C and they fall in winter down to minus 20 C°

The very loose tuff soil is rich in minerals. Our vines are Phylloxera free and grow on their own rootstock. Mildew appears rarely and because of the long dry period only for a few days.

The biological diversity is quite high, but the smal wild plants have only a short growing and flowering period. So keep in mind, the higher the diversity the less you need to think about pests and diseases.

Regular visitors

13. April 2019   IV Dionysos Symposium   Gelveri – Manufactur

Sabiha Apaydin und Hacer Özkaya degustieren die drei besten Weine von den autochthonen Trauben   Tas Üzüm, Keten Gömlek und It Üzüm.

Zum Dionysos Symposium 2019 wurden alle Weine von 2017 und 2018 die noch in den Küps lagern degustiert und diskutiert.

  1. Dezember 2018   „Karakterre“ Weinmesse in Wien

Hier sieht man gut welche Weine auf dieser besonderen Messe präsentiert wurden

Entsprechend war die Begeisterung groß

Hacer freut sich über den Zuspruch den wir für unsere Naturweine erhalten.

Oktober 2018    Zum Reifen unserer Weine

In einer unserer Höhlen unter dem Haus haben wir für besondere  Weine einen kühlen Platz zum Reifen eingerichtet.

„How to make Natural Wine“ weiterlesen